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srwwgtc leagues championship idea

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#1 RickSpeed

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:15 AM

Hi guys,

 

I've had an idea for a mega championship structure for Simraceway. Something that will reward many many players at all levels and still reward the top dogs for being awesome. Check it out:

 

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

Please feel free to reply with thoughts, suggestions, questions and I'll see if I can evolve the idea into something cool.


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#2 tomekf248

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:54 PM

Really impressive document. Great job! I also think there is a place for a proper championship in SRW.

 

But I would consider a few changes:

- why don't include tire wear and fuel conspumption. It would add a little strategy thinking into the races (or maybe it's a test for drivers to go to pits with 1 liter of fuel)

- I would change race lenght for different classes. I'd give Jettas a 25 min race (maybe two races during one weekend), Meganes a 45 min race, GTs a 55 min race and LMPs a 75 min race

- maybe first race in Jettas and Meganes could be only half-points round to soften the pressune on rookies


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#3 tigre73

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:28 PM

Good wo we see the most complete driver on all type of circuit. Only time I have  could be a problem in this type of competition



#4 tomekf248

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:02 PM

24 weeks is really long season. What if someone won't be able to race in one or more races? It may happen and if driver will notify SRW of that fact before the race we may introduce guest drivers who will not score points - good drivers from other classes/past champions/pro drivers/other race winners (like SRO or Indy 500). What's your opinion?


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#5 RickSpeed

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 05:01 PM

Really impressive document. Great job! I also think there is a place for a proper championship in SRW.

But I would consider a few changes:
- why don't include tire wear and fuel conspumption. It would add a little strategy thinking into the races (or maybe it's a test for drivers to go to pits with 1 liter of fuel)
- I would change race lenght for different classes. I'd give Jettas a 25 min race (maybe two races during one weekend), Meganes a 45 min race, GTs a 55 min race and LMPs a 75 min race
- maybe first race in Jettas and Meganes could be only half-points round to soften the pressune on rookies

Thanks for the positive feedback.
Some good suggestions too. Fuel usage will be used for the endurance races. As far as I know the tyre wear part of the game is a little too dodgy to date to rely on. It could be cool however to have the higher categories have full access to setups to mimic the new Expert class
Good points on the length of races though. I like those suggestions.
I'm not sure what you mean for halving the Jetta points. Could you please elaborate?

24 weeks is really long season. What if someone won't be able to race in one or more races? It may happen and if driver will notify SRW of that fact before the race we may introduce guest drivers who will not score points - good drivers from other classes/past champions/pro drivers/other race winners (like SRO or Indy 500). What's your opinion?

The 24 week season will likely result in some missed opportunities for some drivers but all that will happen is they won't rack up the points and risk demotion if they can't keep up the races. I'm inclined to think that this is correct as it will sort out the regulars from the part timers. Everyone should end up in their appropriate places based on skill and participation. "You have to be in it to win it" so to speak.

Thanks again guys for the feedback. Keep it coming.

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#6 tomekf248

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 07:05 PM

I'm not sure what you mean for halving the Jetta points. Could you please elaborate?

From this year we have in Poland a new racing series - VW Castrol Cup which is aimed at young drivers. As many of them are complete rookies in high-level racing, series organisers decided to only award half of the points during the first round. That really softened the pressure on drivers who could focus more on adapting to the car and all of the procedures without worrying about losing too much points at the very beginning.

As a motorsport journalist I tought that was a brilliant idea and as the Jetta C4 class would be for many drivers their first professional racing series we can introduce that sollution here.

 

And aside from 24 regular drivers there are two VIP cars for guest drivers.

 

EDIT: Why not go for the multi-car formula in GT2 and GT3. There are cars built within the same class so why don't use them. Of course some cars will be better on some circuit but isn't that the variety we love in racing?


Edited by tomekf248, 08 June 2013 - 07:33 PM.

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#7 RickSpeed

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 09:11 AM

I like the half points idea for rookies, that could work nice.

The trouble I can see with the VIP idea is that there are currently only 14 slots for racers so giving any of these away for VIPs would be quite a small grid for the championship. Similar with the multiclass racing with the addition of one thing that I wanted to avoid and that is the slower cars always getting in the way of each race, potentially spoiling someone's championship each outing. I though perhaps best for now at least to keep them separate but have them come together in some one off events such as the exhibition race. The inspiration for this came from the v8supercars. Maybe we could put VIP's in the exhibition races like real racers. McNish for example. That'd be cool.

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#8 AVENGED7FOLD

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

awesome!!!



#9 tigre73

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:05 PM

Like this long article, a pity I have not so good english to read quickly this one, good job, well for me could be good to take part this events or open wheel one during year, 1 day to week, qualiufy could be on the same day



#10 RickSpeed

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:35 AM

I wonder about swapping the Viper with the Megane Trophy as according to this list:

http://community.sim...-charts/?p=1364

The Trophy is actually faster.

It's also more expensive to buy than the Viper so it would kinda make sense.


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#11 Lockatello

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:30 PM

Great work RickSpeed,

 

This Impressive document/concept has awesome potential and has my interest for sure.

 

Its clear that Times of day, points, revenue, are well thought of and can be easily modified to suit the suggested championship.

 

Details like set-up of the car, tire usage, weather are in my opinion "little details" to streamline with the participating drivers, but we need to be carefull.

 

Carefull, Simply because in real life you would have a whole team to run a proper racecar and you can't expect every player to be a whole team.

Therefor I think you should NOT use a free- set-up. Second reason of not using a Open-set-up, is the same reason why Cossacco does not give the RTTW details weeks in advance: "The calendar is known and would give the edge/benefit  to players that have the most time for training/testing." and this was not wanted by Cossacco, as far as I know. (at least in last chat discussion about the same question with in RTTW/RSO-event)

 

With this in mind and knowing that I also see that some tracks could greatly benefit from changing the gear ratios and/or a little more/less down force.

I must agree that sometimes the wish to be able to use the set-up of the car is there. Simply to benefit the track of the day and therefor would greatly benefit the race overall.

 

So what should we do?

 

1) Dedicating a trust-worthy driver (with history of Setting-up a racecar) to advise in the car-settings and maintain some sort

    of "Balance of performance"

2) set-up a forum-page dedicated to testing and proposed a set-up that the "test-driver" then can evaluate?

    (Of course this Test driver needs to be neutral and have no attachments to a party in this Championship, but that is logical.)

3) Overlay all the data and make a drivable compromise

4) Meeting before track day, to explain changes and give settings to players/teams to test.

5) ...

6) ...

 

Is it really worth the hassle if the actual set-up is basically a compromise of all and not gona be my personal preference?

 

I don't think its worth the time and/or effort, so I would vote:

 

"Default car" is the best balance of performance to keep the Championship fair for all

 

Thanks for reading

 

Lockatello



#12 Crazy Buzzy

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 06:21 PM

Nice work RickSpeed  B)

 

I am in for sure,just say when it starts  :D



#13 RickSpeed

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:57 AM

Details like set-up of the car, tire usage, weather are in my opinion "little details" to streamline with the participating drivers, but we need to be carefull.

 

Carefull, Simply because in real life you would have a whole team to run a proper racecar and you can't expect every player to be a whole team.

Therefor I think you should NOT use a free- set-up. Second reason of not using a Open-set-up, is the same reason why Cossacco does not give the RTTW details weeks in advance: "The calendar is known and would give the edge/benefit  to players that have the most time for training/testing." and this was not wanted by Cossacco, as far as I know. (at least in last chat discussion about the same question with in RTTW/RSO-event)

 

With this in mind and knowing that I also see that some tracks could greatly benefit from changing the gear ratios and/or a little more/less down force.

I must agree that sometimes the wish to be able to use the set-up of the car is there. Simply to benefit the track of the day and therefor would greatly benefit the race overall.

 

How about this:

  • Jetta Cup through to Dodge Viper - Fixed setup, no fuel usage, no tyre wear etc.
  • GT3 - Fixed setup - fuel usage, no tyre wear
  • GT2 - Fixed setup - fuel usage, tyre wear
  • GT1 - LImited setup (aero, gear ratios, tyres) - fuel usage, tyre wear
  • LM - Full Setup Access, fuel usage, tyre wear etc.

That would be a good curve for difficulty and something for the elites to chew on.


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#14 Lockatello

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:32 PM

How about this:

  • Jetta Cup through to Dodge Viper - Fixed setup, no fuel usage, no tyre wear etc.
  • GT3 - Fixed setup - fuel usage, no tyre wear
  • GT2 - Fixed setup - fuel usage, tyre wear
  • GT1 - LImited setup (aero, gear ratios, tyres) - fuel usage, tyre wear
  • LM - Full Setup Access, fuel usage, tyre wear etc.

That would be a good curve for difficulty and something for the elites to chew on.

 

The progression as shown is what i would vote for, yea.

 

Thing to do now is:

A) Get someone who is willing to put some time and effort in making a in-dept tutorial for the car-Set-up-page.(Perhaps tire usage graph incl.?)

B) Figure out how to create a "Balance of performance" (if Multi-car racing is an option in GT3, GT2,GT1 and LM)

C) Figure out how to marshal this "Balance of performance" (if Multi-car racing is an option in GT3, GT2,GT1 and LM)

D) Figure out how if the game can handle " the Balance of Perfomance" (if Multi-car racing is an option in GT3, GT2,GT1 and LM)

E) Figure out WHO will be the dedicated driver to balance the cars (if Multi-car racing is an option in GT3, GT2,GT1 and LM)

 

If multi car racing is an option, perhaps the best way to accommodate this is by a mandatory pitstop. This means that starting -fuel levels need to come down a bit and means you can only add "so much" fuel when pitting. This way you can add/retract time from pit-stops to create a balance.

Car A = by default 1,2 seconds faster then car B. Then after 30 laps he will have an [1,2sec] X [30Laps] =36sec advantage. 36sec devided by 2 pitstops = +18sec/pitstop. So after pitstop he basicly gets an 18sec stop/and go to balance the race.

 

Questions now is if the game will support this kind of play and how we create/monitor this.

 

We need to figure this out or we get stuck, or rather "Stock" witch means Multi-car racing is not an option, because "balance of performance" is needed if we don't wanna end-up in a "one-brand" race, simply because one car is outperforming the others.

 

Don't get me wrong, i love this idea to bits, but we need to think about practicality aswell. Simply switching cars is not gona provide the solution to these questions. So my conclusion now would be that these open set-up will only work if the GT- and LM-Classes have one car to race with. If Multi-car racing is wanted, we have a lot of work ahead of us and we seriously need to think "hard" how to accommodate this wish and the questions it may raise.

 

With High regards

 

Lockatello



#15 RickSpeed

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

I see what you are saying but for now at least, it seems multi-class racing is pretty limited to what cars work well with others (judging by recent SRO issues). That's why I've only specified a few races to be 2x multi-class races and they are considered 'exhibition' races that don't count towards the overall championship. As the game's cars and tracks get more optimised for multi-class races, we can then start to introduce more multi-car races and more classes per race. Until then, it is pretty much a one car race in terms of championships. 

 

In terms of car setups, there is already plenty of guides out there that describe in depth about every aspect of setting up your car in this engine. One example would be: Setup Matrix

This is what I used on those Expert hot laps recently - it seemed to advise me well. 

 

I think the biggest challenge of this idea is the amount of man-power and upkeep it will demand from SRW. All those payouts, all those races to review, leaderboards to maintain etc. I've tried to keep everything as much current state of play as possible in terms of it doesn't require any Skillquant tweaks, engine fixes, massive coding changes. It just needs organisation. I don't get the impression that SRW can spare the resources to man the project at this stage - I could be wrong. 


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#16 Lockatello

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:34 PM

<slaps forehead> AH yea, your right.

 

How stupid of me... I totally forgot about the "exhibition races" in your concept , that logically makes for a one-car-brand race-event for the championship points, indeed.

 

Positive side is that it shows how well thought the concept is and the awesome potential it has. That is if in the future we can make a Multi-car GT/LM Championship possible.My notes are not apropriate for now, but atleast we already know what questions we can expect to tackle. ...all in all: "a good thing for the future"

 

Leaves the "present-time" to be discussed and i share your fear that the workload that it will bring is not in the capabilities of what SRW can do at the present date.

There is nothing wrong with that, we already can make this Championship, but i would state that if this championship is a success and therefor brings more revenue for SRW. Then its justifiable to invest in the resources ánd man-power by SRW to accomidate this championship.

 

How i see things is: "That this championship-concept is an expansion to the current game."

 

I strongly feel that SRW can not ignore the potential of this championship. Game- and/or business-wise.

Nor can it ignore the potential for the future. Second to that is, that i strongly believe that if hard-cash is going to be awarded by SRW, SRW needs to be the regulating organisation to that. It would only mean double work if a 3th-party would organizing and take lead this event. It would be counter-productive in my opinion.

 

So basically the next step has to be taken by SRW and we need to go from there.

 

Thanks for reading

Lockatello



#17 Andrea Brozzi

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:29 AM

I think it's a good idea,hope to see it in the near future :)


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