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#41 sierra28

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 06:22 AM

I thought I saw in chat during the races that for the WTCC race, the hot lap event will be used to determine grid position.  Is that correct?

 

So instead of 20 minutes of practice-qualy-warmup, how long will the pre-race warmup be?  How about 12 minutes?  Switching from three sessions to just one session will save more time than just the difference in session time, since there's extra time at the end of each session.

yes Koba it is correct, the final positions on hotlap 2 event will determine the race starting positions



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#42 niraceway

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 07:28 AM

disappointed by this no quali rule :(  .... I feel it takes away an important part of your driving skill which requires you to hang it on the edge of the limits in a short period of time to get that perfect lap ...feels like a lot of excitement is taken out already


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#43 Kobayashi10

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 08:13 AM

Hmm, I have mixed feelings about this change.
 
The negative:
 
1.  Obviously the drama of qualifying in a short 10-minute period is gone.  The surprise factor of someone putting in an unexpected, inspired lap is no longer there.  So this aspect of real-life racing is no longer there, reducing the simmyness of the sim.  However, it should be pointed out that the dramatic short qualifying periods of F1 is a relatively new thing.
 
2.  Because people have different amounts of time available to spend on their hot laps, the hot lap times aren't necessarily reflective of everyone's speed relative to one another.  If you have time to do 120 laps over several days, you have a better chance of getting that perfect lap in than someone who only has time to put in 30 laps on Saturday.  (However a short, open qualifying session isn't necessarily reflective of everyone's relative race pace either.)
 
The positive:
 
1.  For me personally, the races start in the morning and my first laps of the day are in the 5-minute practice session.  By the time we are qualifying I'm still not in the groove and I'm still sleepy, so I almost always qualify 1 to 2 seconds slower than my hot lap time.  So this change is great for me.
 
2.  As robnitro said long ago, open qualifying means you can be a victim of bad luck because of the people around you.  I saw this happen (from watching the replay later) at the F3 race at Sonoma a few months ago when robnitro got stuck behind someone who would not let him by.  After wasting a lap slowing down to create a gap, robnitro caught up to the guy again and still couldn't get by.
 
3.  As robnitro said long ago, these races are short, and depending on the car/track combo it can be very difficult to recover from a bad grid position, even if you have good race pace.  That's why he was lobbying for private qualifying sessions, to reduce the luck factor of traffic.  I don't know if he thinks grid position by hot lap is better than private qualy though.
 
4.  I believe going from three pre-race sessions to just one warmup session (with a shorter overall time), and with the grid positions already set, will greatly increase the efficiency of getting through all the races.
 
So overall I like the change.  :D


#44 sierra28

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:32 AM

1. ussualy qualy didn't reflect the corect positions regarding fastest racer, because it was hard to put the perfect lap time in such a short perioad of time and with traffic around to look after.

2. i personally missed almost every one, performing poor under pressure of time

3. in the other way i will miss Liam commentary in the qualy's with all those last second changes witch was awsome :D

4. the qualy bringed up a certain adrenaline witch was scarry at first but in time it gives u a nice feeling, feel so alive in that moments :D

5. now the question is will the starting time of races be changed from the ussual ones ?

   or there will be more laps per race ?



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#45 Jeronimo1961

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:47 AM

Salut les gars!
À l'attention de de l'SRW d'équipe, et les Pilotes participant à CE championnat: je suis impatient De preciser Que Je Serai NE Pas capable De participer a des courses (les horaires des evenements are, malheureusement, le same Que Ceux de mon infirmière Préférée).

Je Espère Que la participation à «Hot Lap 2 de ma" ne pas compliqué La Tâche des organisateurs. Je Essaie juste (sans prétention) verser Enregistrer non hotlap à l'essai (calibrer) me en Ce Qui Concerne Les Pilotes Que je suis habituellement Prochaine rapide de cours; si toutefois il is ennuyeux:. Dites-I et à l'avenir je me abstiendrai

Amusez-vous CES Durant cours !!!

 

( en souhaitant Que message de mon is compréhensible ...)



#46 Jeronimo1961

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 11:59 AM

Sorry for this post. I just wanted to tell you: Do not take care of my hotlap in this event, because i won't be abble to race with you.

 

Have fun!



#47 niraceway

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 12:53 PM

no guys no no no no.... those positives you list seem just excuses for not focussing 100 % and blaming it on a number of factors !!!   .... there are no excuses for not concentrating from a racing driver .!!!!  ..... the only little positive maybe the overall time will be reduced , this is not really a positive but more of a convenience for maybe someone like me who are in a time zone  where races finish at 3AM ... but am I prepared to wait that long if quali is included ?? .. oh hell yeah !!! :D


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#48 kelseyg

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 12:56 PM

 

2.  As robnitro said long ago, open qualifying means you can be a victim of bad luck because of the people around you.  I saw this happen (from watching the replay later) at the F3 race at Sonoma a few months ago when robnitro got stuck behind someone who would not let him by.  After wasting a lap slowing down to create a gap, robnitro caught up to the guy again and still couldn't get by.
 

 

funnily enough the exact thing happen bigtime for me in the 500-700 also the F3 at Sonoma, (i only didn't put in a complaint as i'd secured pole with an earlier banker lap and as a newbie didn't want to put up a fuss);

 

I set myself up to have time for 2 proper qual laps at the end of the session, on the 1st of the 2, towards the end of the lap I came up behind a guy going slow but swerving all over the road (like some attempt to warm tires for a flier), impossible to get past and ruined the lap, so I gave him some space let him get way ahead,

then started my last lap to do a final run at qual, only to meet the guy again half way round still slow and zig zaging all over the road (at this stage it was impossible for him to get in a fast lap so why was he still swerving all over the road ruining it for others?).

 

well finally got that off my chest ;)



#49 ingange

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:16 PM

I dont like the idea of skipping the qualy ! Unlees we haw abig delay like ladt week . Qualy is imortant part of sro. Think twice please before canceling qualy . It is true that it is hard to do a good lap under presure in a limited time but that is what racing is about . I completly agree with niraceway .
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#50 Dude74

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 04:49 PM

Might give this round a bash, still not running speedtrees there lol. Love wtcc
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#51 Gralfindel_PL

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 06:21 PM

I'm also against no quali, it's an important part to emotions and adrenaline that Sunday races bring to drivers. Doing fast laps in short period of time and dealing with slower guys ahead/faster behind is also a skill that racing driver should have, we shouldn't just say "oh, we can skip it instead of practicing and learning it, so lets do it".
I understand the point about overall duration of sunday races and making it easier to stay on schedule but is it really worth it?


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#52 YardStick

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 07:44 PM

I don't know which is better, quali or not. It kinda belongs there, but in real life it's often driven hours before the actual race, so.. Maybe we could do  good without it, who knows?

 

I understand it has it's place, but by dropping it out and even cutting practice off, (Only slightly longer warmup and then straight to race) we could have a bit longer races in the lower SQ-starts, which would be nice, and still have the whole night finished up good 30 minutes or more earlier.

I'd like that.

 

Let's give it a shot, shall we? Let's see if it works and do the voting afterwards..


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#53 Kobayashi10

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 08:15 PM

Like Yardstick says, let's give it a shot and see how it goes for one race.
 
Between me saying we can't start too early, and niraceway saying don't let it end too late, there's a lot to get through.  I think the biggest source of delays is after the qualy when we're in the warmup period, for whatever reason there will often be someone with a problem and Coss has to extend the warmup period as we wait for that person to re-join.  I think the change greatly improves the chances of staying on schedule.
 
I actually don't care about that, it's you euro (and indian) dudes who complain about the races going late.  It's morning for me so I just keep my morning schedule clear and my race is over by 11:00 am.
 
I don't mind the concept of a 10-minute open qualifying with traffic, I was just listing certain problems with it.  My only reason for liking the change is that I don't have time to warmup before my session starts so I'm never in the groove to get a good time.
 


#54 kelseyg

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:17 PM

I'm in favor of the qual just before the race, adds to the excitment (for the viewer). and personally I preform better under pressure.

 

As for longer or shorter schedule all up, I'm indifferent, whole session starts at 3am Monday morning (start of the working week) so for all us Aussies its pretty much at the worst possible time anyways (no complaint we deal with it, timezones never going to suit everyone no matter when you put it on).



#55 SRW_Cossacco

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:47 AM

Hello All  :)

 

 

 

It's great to see such an interesting discussion about the new format of Qualifying. Please keep the feedback coming. I will make a statement, giving you an insight on the idea behind it and then a direct reply to every single opinion above, just but not today. One of the reasons is here: http://community.sim...ng-bug/?p=18956


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#56 Dude74

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 08:59 AM

Am I missing the point here? Surely if there are so many races to get through, could we not run some simultaneously?  If we as a community were up for that, we could have even more special races at the weekend. May not be practical, just  a thought though.

. BTW I'd prefer to do some sort of quali, however short and I'm loving the open setup for Brno.


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#57 SRW_Cossacco

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 12:03 AM

All necessary details of Round 2 are now available, have a look: http://community.sim...onship/?p=18802


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#58 SRW_Cossacco

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 12:47 AM

Ok, I've just read all of your opinions about the new format. Very interesting.

 

 

Let me give you a view from my perspective. First of all, such a change will add an extra value to the Hot Lap event. It always used to be valuable, but at the same time there are many drivers who make sure to secure their position, then just move on. It should result in a slightly tighter competition than it used to be, but it won't affect every single participant, only those few who didn't give their best before.

 

Moving into the pre-race area. Depending on a car, but there is a very clear difference between Qualifying and Race sessions. First one is all about Hot Lapping with lowest amount of fuel and a specific setup (if possible), then second one, which in our case is usually just 5 minutes after that, is the opposite. You all do a great job of switching, but there is always that x-factor, so someone who didn't manage to switch (into Race mode) within those 5 minutes, because for example decided to take a break after a tough Qualifying session. After all it's usually 10 minutes (or more) of continuous driving at the limit. I mention all of that, because one of the main reasons was a belief that this change will basically make a substantial improvement in safety, especially early in the race, where most of the incidents occur.

 

From the perspective of timeline, it will definitely make it possible for us to minimize spaces between the races. I wanted to try that this week, but given that it will effectively move most of the races to earlier time (by about 10-20 minutes), there's a risk of someone missing it. Especially given that I just barely updated the thread. So, this process would require a better approach, but we might try it next week 

 

On to the TV. There is a downside of losing the action of an open Qualifying session, but there are a few upsides. We will be able to make a proper presentation of starting grid prior to the race. Show it on the screen, commentate on it, then also show the pre-race preparations that you guys will be doing in the meantime and which will visualize the potential race paces. Have a look at the Championship standings, make a prediction. This is basically what should replace the Qualifying session. 

 

My hope is that we all win on this change, but this is just the prediction and we will see what happens.


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#59 Mesder13

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 02:04 AM

On to the TV. There is a downside of losing the action of an open Qualifying session, but there are a few upsides. We will be able to make a proper presentation of starting grid prior to the race. Show it on the screen, commentate on it, then also show the pre-race preparations that you guys will be doing in the meantime and which will visualize the potential race paces. Have a look at the Championship standings, make a prediction. This is basically what should replace the Qualifying session. 

That sounds pretty cool! At first I didn't like the lack of qualifying, but it seems to have a suitable replacement, haha. We'll see how it goes on Sunday.



#60 SRW_Cossacco

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 02:47 PM

That sounds pretty cool! At first I didn't like the lack of qualifying, but it seems to have a suitable replacement, haha. We'll see how it goes on Sunday.

 

It's something that we tried to put together a long time ago, to have it like in real life, but it was impossible to make it all work within literally seconds after Qualifying ended  :)

 

 

Let's see what happens! 


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