172 replies to this topic

[ingange]

I had a terrible  ( racing ) month . In last race i spoon out on a cube by may fault . And after i got my wing back i wanted to lap back and ruined Kobayashi10  race . Im soo soory .

[robnitro]

No problem MAC.  I know you are generally a clean driver, and I just have to blame the imbalance in general to the qualifying, where some fast people got caught in traffic - and the sheer tightness of the track which makes passing hard, but because it is a race of 20 minutes/16 laps, makes the rush even more urgent to get in front!

 

I was trying to drive back to pits for repairs, but on this track there is NO SPACE to do this safely as the apexes vary a lot on that back area.  If it is so hard to pass in the first place, figure how hard is it to be safe when driving at half the speed with no front wing...  Drive on the grass?  I don't know, it's really not wide enough like silverstone or indy.

 

Really dissapointing. 

I had brought up the issue about qualifying being too crowded.  On a track of 75 seconds a lap, divided among 14 people, that is evenly spaced 5 second gaps.  In reality that is not the case, and someone 1+ second slower in front can already cause problems for people behind...

Cossaco was saying that this is the strategy, to exit pits where the spot is good, fine, but looking at the map it was crowded all over. 

 

Even 6 people in the hot lap was causing traffic issues after running 2 or 3 laps...

 

I looked up the Indycar road course qualifying, and similar to f1, they run ROUNDS of qualifying, to make a better chance to set a correct time.  Not only that, the field isn't so spread apart in time like we had +-1 seconds or more!

 

Just think about it, if qualification was private, and people can set their best times without the problem of traffic (which is HALF LUCK- as you cannot tell who is in front or behind you until its too late!!!)  then the starting grid would get bunched up less.

 

Anyway, I know there are people who would lambast the idea of private qualifying etc... but I'm sure there are others that find this a good idea to TRY OUT, and see how it works.  How else can things improve on fairness/etc if we don't experiment on this BETA game?

[macshome]

No problem MAC.  I know you are generally a clean driver, and I just have to blame the imbalance in general to the qualifying, where some fast people got caught in traffic - and the sheer tightness of the track which makes passing hard, but because it is a race of 20 minutes/16 laps, makes the rush even more urgent to get in front!

 

Thanks. It happens to everybody at some point. I just hate it if I cause an issue because it effects people other than myself. That's why I normally make a dive for the grass in a situation like this. It was really close to not being a bump from me today and I was actually surprised that it happened.

 

I was already kicking myself for throwing out my best qualifying of the series, particularly after I had practiced the start/first lap on cold tires and full tanks all morning. Bumping into you just made even worse. After I stopped I concentrated on trying to set decent and consistent times and didn't have any more mistakes. I was hoping to avoid being lapped, but I went ahead and pulled over to the side and stopped to let LionHeart by with one lap to go. I eventually ended up 6th as other people retired/spun/picked up penalties as the race went on.

 

I had podium pace today and I threw it out the window along with your, and Clark10's, races as well. Sorry again for the heartache. 

 

On the qualifying thing, I don't mind the group qualifying. Being able to pick a gap to run in is a good skill to have. More than one round would be good, but it's already a pretty compressed schedule as it is. I do think that we need to have a time limited session to set the grid with though as otherwise someone can just throw the car at the track for 3 days and hope a stupid-fast, non-repeatable lap sticks. I was 6th in the hot lap and then improved my time to be 3rd on the grid today. I even kept that position for 4 corners!

 

Maybe there is a way to have an event the morning of the race that lets you run solo, but only lets you enter once. That way we could get the grid set before the race comes up. Then we could have 10 min of warmup before the race instead of the current 10 min qualifying session.

[robnitro]

The thing about that argument against qualifying is that 10 minutes is not really a crazy time anyway to get a "perfect" time, and those that practiced for it, should be consistent enough to be able to do that time.  Private qualifying seems like a good compromise, so you have only 10 mins to run a good lap.  In Sonoma that is only 6 timed laps (removing the first un timed lap).  Problem was at A51, with 2.5 min laps... its only 3 timed laps (first lap untimed)!  So, to have to find a gap, and all that in those limited laps, is pretty insane.  It only seems to reward those that fly out first, get a quick fast lap, and then they don't have to worry.  It's also disorganized in how people exit to do the qualifications, IRL, the officials determine this?!

 

The whole gap thing is not a good idea, because if everyone did it, there would be no gaps to find.  It's like at work, we don't have enough trucks.  So they say, come in early and grab a truck key.  But that doesn't fix the initial problem, there are not enough trucks (not enough space).  So, really at the end, still someone doesn't have a truck. 

 

But this IS NOT real life, because they have rounds.  If you want to be hardcore and make it super real, put in rounds and all that.   In fact, because it is such a SHORT race compared to the real indy races, qualifying is very important- if not to just balance the starting grid out. 

 

 

On the qualifying thing, I don't mind the group qualifying. Being able to pick a gap to run in is a good skill to have. More than one round would be good, but it's already a pretty compressed schedule as it is. I do think that we need to have a time limited session to set the grid with though as otherwise someone can just throw the car at the track for 3 days and hope a stupid-fast, non-repeatable lap sticks. I was 6th in the hot lap and then improved my time to be 3rd on the grid today. I even kept that position for 4 corners!

 

 

[robnitro]

So, I got a few buddies on iracing, and being however real they claim it to be,  I asked how do they run qualifying.

 

Check this out, its PRIVATE qualifying on iracing Road courses, example 20 mins at LRP.  Who would have thought?

[Kobayashi10]

Well I had a crazy race.  First, I was shocked that I qualified P6 with a 1.14.704, less than a tenth slower than my hotlap time.  I wasn't even expecting to break into the 14's because I've been driving slow in these championship events.  The race start was a little crazy but I stayed out of trouble on Lap 1 to get to P4.  Then kingdaeho went off briefly in the Carousel and lost two spots, so I was in P3.  On Lap 4 I was behind a lapped car, and on the approach to the Turn 7 hairpin he moved over to let us by.  Braking into the hairpin, I got tapped from behind and spun out.  Looking at the replay, I hit the normal braking point, but I reached turn-in speed a tad early, so maybe I lifted slightly early because of the lapped car.  I ended up back in P4 behind kingdaeho, who then spun out coming out of the last hairpin—so I was back in P3.  On Lap 6 ingange spun out in Turn 3, so suddenly I was in P2, with about a 3-second gap to Litos76 behind me.

 

At the start Lap 8 ingange was coming out the pits (a lap down) and he let me by, but he was faster than me so he stuck behind me.  On Lap 11 braking into the Turn 7 hairpin ingange passed me, and I turned into him and lost my front wing.  Looking at the replay from the cockpit view, I started turning in before I saw him on the inside.  I would have gladly let him by to take the pressure off, but I just didn't notice him in the rear-view mirror passing me.  It was a clean pass so I don't blame ingange.  Although in real racing there does not seem to be universal agreement on how much a lapped car should defer to a car on the lead lap.  I remember Senna punched Irvine after the Japanese GP because Irvine dared to pass Senna to unlap himself. 

 

Up to that point I had been maintaining the 3-second gap to Litos76, so I think I had a good chance to finish P2.  After a wing change I finished P7 for a respectable final standing in the championship, tied for P6 with Garaith. 

[Kobayashi10]

Regarding qualifying, I have to say I disagree with robnitro.  In real Indycar qualifying, the first round is in groups of 12 cars, so a group of 14 cars is only slightly more crowded.  And in both Indycar and F1 you always hear complaints that someone's lap was compromised by someone else.  Sometimes the other guy is penalized and sometimes he's not.  So this is a very realistic scenario and I like it.

 

robnitro makes a very relevant point that the spread of lap times is much bigger in the game, so there is probably a lot more interference going on.  Also he made a good point about these races being short so you don't have much time to make up for a poor grid position.  However I don't quite agree with his comment about the grid being mixed up (about it being unrealistic or whatever).  Jarno Trulli famously always did a great job qualifying his F1 Toyota, and then he would hold everyone up in the races.  It happens with other drivers as well.  I happened to put in a good lap (for me) to start P6, but I knew my race pace was going to be slow.  Sometimes you just get a good lap in.

 

robnitro, I looked at the qualifying session replay, and you just had the bad luck of being behind (someone who wasn't behaving very well).  You kept slowing way down to make a gap, and he kept doing really slow laps.  So you kept catching up to him but he would not let you by (I assume it was just ignorance, not bad intent).  I can see why you were frustrated.  It looked like you were only able to put in one clean lap.  But I would attribute your problem to his bad behavior more than the nature of the qualifying format.  Perhaps Cossacco should provide pre-qualifying instruction to not hold people up.

[Kobayashi10]

OK, for the SQ 500-900 group only, I put together the final Indycar championship standings.  This is completely unofficial—the official results may be different.  Aside from any mistakes I may have made, there are several tie scores, and how I broke the ties may be different from how Coss sets the final order.
 
championships.html?event=1405SQ59

(Edit: Some explanation deleted. I re-ordered the ties according to criteria Coss has used in the past.)
 
Again, Coss may break these ties in different ways, so the official results may be quite different.
 
Let me know if you see any errors.

[DR3D9]

thanks for the event. didn't really know what I was doing, yet it was great fun.

[clark10]

Dont worry Macshome. No problem its the race. Usually i go out and crash the car myself ;-). See you on track.

[Risto Kappet]

Good race, was on good pace but was pretty careful in the race as i had seen someone burn in the B race,

shifting later and more smooth required change in style a bit so i could not push but didnt need to.

Few times my shifter still bugged and shifted down to 1st very rapidly, i was very lucky not to explode but overall i made no mistakes, lets see how the scores are calculated for champ.

[Ribeiro]

 

The final results for the Indycar championship are already available in simracer.tk, here are the direct links:

 

SQ 900-1100

Standings: http://www.simracer....1100/standings/

Post race results: http://www.simracer....900-1100/race4/

 

SQ 500-900

Standings: http://www.simracer....-900/standings/

Post race results: http://www.simracer..../500-900/race4/

 

(send me a PM if you can not open, and I will send the image directly)

 

Note: I watch and review the entire races to collect the data, but I am not a steward, I can not judge and punish drivers with the loss of positions / points, I include only those that have been declared during the races and seen by me, so it is unofficial.

[dimagico]

excellent as always! This should be a standard for all future events

[jmoo1]

very fun Championship and thanks to Coss and Srw and all participants!!

Yeeehaaawww!! I won!!

as a fulltime working man and fulltime Family Father i didnt expect this outcome!! Its hard to battle against some of these guys here, but a steady collection of points and a thrilling win at Indy made it possible!! Grats to Launger for his Start/Finish win at Sonoma!!

On a side note - people please practice your Starting procedures, its quite shocking that in the Top Class of SRW we have to have 2-3 restarts everytime!! embarissing at times!! We owe SRW that people can see on livestream that this is serious racing, but we make a joke out of it when crashing out like noobs!! and this is not a matter of a "paper like front wing"

Looking forward to the next Championship with all of you

[Ragster]

Grats Jmoo!!

 

A very well deserved win m8

[jmoo1]

Thank you Ragster

cant wait till you join us again

[Mr_Jolly]

boings ribeiro i was trying to work that out with your existing table last night...

i saw the 3 way tie...

 

shame no written rules about the tie splitting...

i scanned some in the past and it seemed splitting them various ways

 

if by including dropped points then me but more typically i think maybe germany20007 should be 4th me 5th (by highest result)... well maybe one day we find out

 

boings moo

and i agree too many hotlappers that then go crazy on lap 1

7th start was 'perfect' (well if u dont count ag06 ramming shaun spinning him and pushing me off track) and that start stood

 

make next champ one start and review the replay and people causing wrecks get large points penalties (even if to minus numbers) then moving to bans from events they qualify to
bcos these restarts leads to some rammers being rewarded for aggression and having car restored for new start then an innocent angel (cough) like   me    losing out randomly

seems extremely unjust

[Ribeiro]

if by including dropped points then me but more typically i think maybe germany20007 should be 4th me 5th (by highest result)... well maybe one day we find out

 

The first rule in this case is the number of races of each, and it also applies the discarded race, I know, both have 4, but if the dropped race was considered here, so it seems fair to consider the total number of points before the best position achieved, and why? ... rewards the player who did his best to gain a better position every time since hotlap until the race, it discourages some players to abandon the race in some cases (as is very common), thinking that that result will not count for anything.

But it is only one point of view. One day we will have a table of rules that surely will help much my life

[Kobayashi10]

The first rule in this case is the number of races of each, and it also applies the discarded race, I know, both have 4, but if the dropped race was considered here, so it seems fair to consider the total number of points before the best position achieved, and why? ... rewards the player who did his best to gain a better position every time since hotlap until the race, it discourages some players to abandon the race in some cases (as is very common), thinking that that result will not count for anything.

But it is only one point of view. One day we will have a table of rules that surely will help much my life

 

Has Coss been breaking ties by considering the number of races and the total number of points (including the discarded score), or is this just your opinion on what the primary tie-breaker should be?  If Coss is considering the fourth race as the primary tie-breaker, I don't think that's right, because everyone believes only the three best races count.  As long as the tied racers have entered at least three races, the fourth race should be the third tie-breaker.  I think the first two tie-breakers should be the best finish, and the head-to-head results.

 

If someone enters fewer than three races, then I agree he should lose a tie-breaker with someone who has entered at least three races.

[Ribeiro]

 

Has Coss been breaking ties by considering the number of races and the total number of points (including the discarded score), or is this just your opinion on what the primary tie-breaker should be?  If Coss is considering the fourth race as the primary tie-breaker, I don't think that's right, because everyone believes only the three best races count.  As long as the tied racers have entered at least three races, the fourth race should be the third tie-breaker.  I think the first two tie-breakers should be the best finish, and the head-to-head results.

 

If someone enters fewer than three races, then I agree he should lose a tie-breaker with someone who has entered at least three races.

 

 

Yes, the number of races that each of the drivers participated is the first key factor, even if 3 x 4, and this rule has been used by Cossacco here: http://community.sim...e-14#entry12595 (full standings: http://www.simracer.tk/pdc/standings/)

 

Launger vs. Norbi211 solved basing on the number of races that each of the drivers participated in. Launger 4 races, Norbi211 3 races.

 

The total number of points as the second tiebreaker (only for 4 x 4 races) rule is something suggested by me, but Cossacco considers Head to Head as a factor is some cases (and me too for 3 x 3 or lower), but only after the first rule. But in both cases Litos76 would win the championship, only Mr_Jolly  x Germany which may have some change (remember that we are not considering any penalties).